Fighting over the Girls

There is so much going on in Erec and Enide's story, and we're only halfway done! I'm beginning to get whiplash.

Almost immediately (page 2) we're thrown into King Arthur's desire to hold a hunt for a white stag. Cool, dude, but apparently this is going to cause problems. You have hundreds of women in your court, and you're going to use this hunt as a competition to kiss the most beautiful of them. I guess if you're the king you can do that kind of thing. But when one of your buddies tells you it's not a good idea because fights will break out, you just say, "yeah but we're gonna do it anyway!" Let all the men fight each other over who has the most beautiful woman by his side. Great idea, your majesty.

Then we move into this strange scene with Erec, Guinevere, her maid, and the group that we're soon going to view as our enemies. It's a commonality it literature: the hero's enemy is ours, and this knight (Yder) pissed Erec off. We're off to get revenge! Yder and his dwarf are in our targets, and we hope that Erec can 1) find them, and 2) retrieve his stolen dignity. But we'll have to hit the pause button for a moment because we have to meet the most beautiful woman in the world.

Erec finds a place to stay, and good for him because it's an event that will change the rest of his life. We meet the man who hosts our hero, a father who is happy to share his home with this random (albeit handsome, as we're told) man who just rode up on his horse. Erec has no problem with handing over his horse and allowing himself to be vulnerable in this guy's house. This seems to be a theme in the medieval time period; people, specifically traveling knights, are incredibly trusting of others and their families. I keep wondering if that confidence is universal during this time period or if it's only because they have a position in Arthur's court.

On to this maiden we just met. She's put away our hero's horse and returned to her father and Erec. 

Then her father orders her to have sex with Erec.

That was my interpretation of "my dear daughter, take this lord by the hand and show him the highest honor" (7). Why is this a thing? Is this a custom that allows knights to trust strangers, engaging in 'the highest honor,' or does the ordinary person hand over anything and everything they can to impress the knights? It's all about the Magic Hoo-Hah*, I guess.

Back to Erec's quest for revenge. As we know he participates in the sparrowhawk fight. Side note: why do these men insist on fighting each other to prove who has the most beautiful woman in their possession? 

We finally meet Yder, who seems to be angry and maybe a bit arrogant before their challenge unfolds. But we also know that he's a knight, so on some level, I want to believe he's a good guy. Okay, decent, good might be stretching it. Good guys don't let dwarfs whip everyone just for the hell of it. Erec seems to be on the same wavelength because he's gonna win this fight over the sparrowhawk. But is he, though? I think at this point he's already fallen in love with the nameless (who woman we know to be Edine now). So yeah sure, I'll pretend to believe he's fighting for his revenge against the dwarf's whipping incident. The passion he puts into this battle says he has another reason for being out there. He wants to win that sparrowhawk for his lady.

Here's my biggest problem with the first half of "Erec and Edine": Yder went to the castle to surrender to Queen Guinevere. I get that he's a knight and he has to live by the rule and expectations, and by doing so, he proves himself to be honorable. But this is the question that is leaving me confused: why? What would have happened if he caught the Royals on a day when they weren't feeling so generous? He wouldn't have received Guinevere's acceptance of his presence and Arthur's decision to add him to the court. He could have easily just said

and taken his dwarf (who has proved himself to be wickedly defensive) and the lady he had to some other distant land. They could have started a new life and been the main characters of their own fictional romance story. Bonus: they would avoid the possibility of Guinevere's imprisonment.

*Thank you for the new term, Amy.

Love or Lust? -Elizabeth

I feel like I need to clarify something, before I begin this one...when I think of a modern-day pursuit of "love", I think of a pursuit for the combination of a mind (personality/knowledge), heart (emotionally), and/or body (appearance) that pleases us...all at the same time. And for the body part of that equation, that could be either/both a sexual approval or one of simple approval of beauty.  If what one is feeling for another does not include all three, then it is most likely something else, like admiration or reliance. The mind and heart take a relatively long time of study before one could decide if they truly enjoy each/both of them. The body...not so much. There's a reason "love at first sight" became such a popular notion, the part of love that relies on sight is easily discovered.

When I think of medieval love though, all I ever really see when it describes "loving" someone is that the two are visually pleasing to each other (are beautiful or lust-worthy). There really isn't any time spent on getting to know the other person's interests, beliefs, or often even their background (like social status and wealth, which seem very important to medieval people) before a declaration of love is made, let alone a marriage for love.

So I can't help but be a little confused after hearing people mention in class how scenes, that I thought objectified or restricted Enide, were instead interpreted as romantic, and that Erec and Enide were in "love". I mean I can see that they actually like being in each other's company and sought out to marry the other, but I still feel like the reasons are too vain to actually be called "love".  They love to have sex together, to stare upon one another's beauty (there's several pages dedicated to this fact...), but beyond that and protecting each other's safety/reputation I don't see how they actually care for one another. Enide (or at least her family) wanted to be queen/of high social standing when married. Erec wanted the fairest in the land. Yes they both gained something from being together, they were both supposed equals "in courtesy, beauty, and nobility" (pg 20), but that doesn't mean that automatically they so deeply cared for every aspect of the other's being (heart & mind) that they "loved" one another; That they really trusted each other, or could support the other emotionally when needed. They may value one another at the moment, they may even be good friends (similar ideals/goals are common among friends)...with benefits. I think it's way to soon for them to proclaim such a deep desire and understanding for each other though.

I have some questions from the reading though I'd like to mention. If anyone can help me answer these, please comment below! I added what page the information/thought occurred on for help.

• Pg 23 - Why did the King declare his love and faithfulness to Enide after the "white stag" kiss? Isn't that loyalty supposed to be to his queen or overall kingdom, if anyone, since he's the King?
• Pg 18/24 - Why did Erec promise Enide's father two castles after they agreed upon the marriage? I can understand the giving of wealth...but the change in location and lodging (far from original home)? 
• Pg 17 - Who in the world is Tristan and Morholt? What battle on the Isle of Saint Samson?
• Pg 27 - is "maiden" another word for "virgin" or for "young unmarried girl"?
• Pg 9 - If Erec is the son of a King...why is he a knight, risking his life? I would think he'd be protected from harm as the rightful heir, and be trained (to some degree) on how to run a kingdom rather than how to fight and die. 

The knight

First I would like to say that the description of the knight Erec really reminded me of Chaucers description in the Cantebury Tales. The description wasnt exact, but it reminded me of it because he was praised, and everything said was basically good. He dressed nice though, unlike the knight in Chaucers stories.
I think the things that bother me about stories like this and during this time is this idea of "fighting for a womans love," and thats what Erec had to do for Enide. It bothers me for many reasons. A woman is not a physical prize, why are you fighting for a womans love? Just because you win doesnt mean shell love you. I just think its kind of stupid. It just adds to the idea that women are objects, not people. Men fight for them just for them to serve them forever. I dont like it, but I believe it is accurate for the time period.

One thing i can appreciate though, is Erec's love for Enide He will do anything for Enide, and to protect her. He ignores his duties as a knight (which is dumb, but kind of sweet at the same time).

Posted by Tony Beers

This tale and those we’ve read thus far hold within them some of the best descriptions of human nobility, honor, and strength, not to mention chivalry and at times great empathy, but they also preserve a frailty exhibited by both sexes, if in very different ways. This “vulnerability” in medieval society is easiest to see, for example, in Marie De France’s women -- their fragility is promoted as synonymous with great beauty like a delicate orchid might be, or, as Marie writes in ‘Lanval’: “the lily and the young rose…are surpassed by her beauty” and I myself was drooling very early in the story imagining the Lady’s porcelain skin as Marie continues with “her face, her neck, and her bosom; she was whiter than the hawthorn flower.”

In my opinion, the vulnerability in men, though, is both society’s weakness and its false, but accepted strength as well. This is “patriarchic” in nature; a flaw that still permeates our culture today. I believe that this is a fundamental problem between men and women, but specifically in those days of knightly valor and damsels in distress -- a problem that at its core hides a male-centered vulnerability, an insecurity, a chink in a knight’s armor, if you will. This weakness, thriving in times of war, ironically resides within the not-so-mighty male ego and amounts to a base fear that women will find out that they are just as capable of many valuable vocations, services, or positions “traditionally” held by men.

What’s important also to note in this male dominated “scheme” is that physical prowess over women is only have the trick for these knightly dudes – the real deal is pulling the wool over the minds of these beautiful “fragile flowers” as well! They need to be second-class thinkers too for men to keep the upper hand. Chattel is probably the best one word description for the actual level of power woman enjoyed at this time and what these stories all reflect.

The end result is a patriarchy that values men (not only in physical strength and valor) over their would be “partners” of equal value, who are put on a pedestal – figuratively or metaphorically -- without a choice to decide or think about it, or disobey for that matter. They are at a disadvantage, because they either don’t know what they are capable of (ostensibly from not trying, except a brave few) more than needlepoint and screwing – sexually and mentally too, mostly because they know they can.

Admittedly, this issue has been well documented and isn’t necessarily news to readers of this blog, but it is the presumed “courtly document” herein to which I write as well, soon to be published.

Courage the Cowardly Knight

This portion of Erec and Enide has my brain in all sorts of places. The dwarf, the adventure, the love, the vengeance, the violence was put into a jack in a box and once I started reading it all POPPED out like hey let me give you all this stuff to think about.

I love the great detail they go into when explaining the characters and the battles that Erec involves himself in even if there are a little more gruesome that I expected. Especially, when they go into detail about the beauty of Enide, it gives us a little more than the day dreaming beauty that could just be a figment of the guys imagination. The great detail brings the story to life and creates more of an image in my head. 

When I read, “Poverty humbles many men” I was like TRRRUUUUUUEEEE! I do enjoy the little sprinkles of good and satisfying quotes that are embedded in this story just like this quote here.

 Erec exceeds humbling in my opinion when he gave his love to the maiden. He puts everything down for his love, which is sweet at first I guess because of course he wants to shower her with love and build a deeper connection with her but then I’m like okay my guy, get up and do something with your life, she’ll be there when you get back. Which is why I can see why the maiden beings to pity him. I also, see that they both care a little too much about what people think. I feel as though if people weren’t all up in their business and she hadn’t over heard their comments about Erec, she would have continued to be embraced by his love and blinded by it just as much as he was. 




I even felt a slight pity for Erec too. Only because this is a man who has become vulernable to his maiden and is taking love on with full force and as soon as he does, he is looked at as a coward. Although, I feel like there could have been better ways to handle proving himself able of loving her and being a noble and brave night. I feel like he acted that way more out of anger and pride then, just regaining his dignity. He did not want her to say one word during his journey which was weird. I feel like he just took everything out on her and she was just trying to inform him about what others were saying so he doesn’t ruin his reputation but, also to relieve herself of the guilt she felt for her being the blame. 

Let's Get Crazy (and not listen to people who actually might have good advice...)

Compared with what we have read so far (which have all been super great stories, but have also been kinda short for the most part), there is something to be said for how long and detailed Erec and Enide is (thus far, of course), and how much action has already been packed into it. Some of the other stories we have read just sort of have things happen and don’t really explain them, which is fine. Here, however, we get so much detail in how everything comes about.

One of my favorite earlier parts is when King Arthur is deciding to revive the weird old custom of going on the hunt for the white stag (and then, of course, the winner getting the right to have some action with the prettiest lady in town), and Sir Gawain is like, “dude… bro… this is a really bad idea. Let me specifically lay out the details of why this is a bad idea and you should not go ahead with it.” And King Arthur listens to his logic and then is just like, “you have a point… but imma do it anyways, but I’m the king.” (In my head, he’s also maybe shouting YOLO and has on some pretty douchey sunglasses.) Besides the obvious hilarity of the king flat-out refusing god advice, this bit is also pretty funny considering the fact that Sir Gawain ends up being wrong, and that there actually is one woman who is clearly the prettiest girl around.

Enide’s introduction is also pretty damn hilarious. I appreciate that, rather than just saying, “this girl was pretty,” we get can entire paragraph going into all the various details of her beauty, and how she is like some gift from nature or whatever. We get details on her eyes, her forehead, her face, and everything. We even hear about how impressed Nature is with its own efforts. This does a good job of sort of establishing that Enide’s beauty is not just in Erec’s head. He may be enamored with her (so much so that he doesn’t even really notice her blushing), but she has clearly been created to be basically the prettiest thing to walk the earth… like ever.

I think her reaction to being presented to Erec later on speaks volumes, and says a lot about what women were supposed to be during that period. She is keeping quiet, but inside is overjoyed to be potentially a queen. The ease with which they enter into their romance is pretty intriguing.